Is the Era of College Ending?

Is the Era of College Ending?

Let’s talk about college and politics and
economics because I did a story a couple of weeks ago about the future of the United States
in the context of so many of our systems seeming completely unsustainable. And when I did that story a couple of weeks
ago, we talked about inequality. We talked about the healthcare system which
causes countless medical bankruptcies every year and we also talked about education where
we were seeing and we continue to see the cost of college rising dramatically. Wages are relatively stagnant and this makes
college both less affordable and also less of a good investment relative to the wages
that one would expect and that’s what I want to dig into today. I want to ask you, might we be getting to
the end of the college era as we may end up calling it this era where of course you have
to go to college regardless of the cost to have a shot in the economy. I’ll explain. We’ve already talked about how the exploding
cost of college is far exceeding wage growth and we are seeing more and more people saddled
with student debt without an ability to ever pay it off because of the earnings of the
jobs that that college degree ultimately lands them in. And if college costs continue going up, it’s
a foregone conclusion that fewer and fewer people will be able to afford it. And by that I mean to be able to afford paying
off their student loans with the wages they can expect to earn. I also said in our segment of last week or
the week before that in the interests of Maine state, maintaining a profitable status quo
for the establishment and for corporations and for political elites, every once in a
while a bone can be thrown at people to prevent them from really protesting to change the
system. And that this has done to keep the system
just barely sustainable. Passably sustainable so that the perpetual,
uh, status quo remains. And interestingly enough, the premium in terms
of net worth for college graduates over non-college graduates is very quickly shrinking. Now I want to be clear here because this,
this is, this is important. There is a huge advantage in terms of income
for those with college degrees over those without college degrees. But the advantage in net worth has been shrinking
over time. And part of the reason is that with stagnant
wages, with people who go to college, having to pay off the student debt when the money
goes off to pay loans and student loan interest, rather than building your net worth, it has
a vicious cycle where you earn higher wages but more of the wages go to paying off student
loans because of the student loans. You end up having to charge a lot of your
day to day expenses to a credit card, which means you’re paying even more interest, which
further restricts your net worth. So you make significantly more money with
a college degree. But the premium in terms of the effect on
your net worth is becoming smaller and smaller. Now, in addition to this, we’ve also talked
about the political component to the whole college space right now, which is that convenient
for the American, right? They have been to some degree successfully
pushing the idea that college is merely liberal. Indoctrination colleges restrict conservative
speech and this has been priming a lot of conservatives to already be skeptical of college. So we may actually see a movement away from
the requirement of a college degree for more and more jobs that could reinforce a move
away from people going to college in the first place. And in fact there are lots of companies, even
some financial companies where more and more positions don’t require a college degree. So what’s going to happen? The left has to be careful because if as a
society, we move away from college education as a requirement for jobs. If the economy can’t support the student debt,
if college makes less sense over time because of what it costs, that’s one thing. But remember that Republican talking points
work way better on the uneducated. So if there is indeed a move away from college
education, it could be very, very bad for the American left. Since we know that unbalance, the more educated
someone is, the more likely they are to vote for a more progressive candidate. So I want to hear from you about this. Get in touch. What do you think will eventually happen with
the cost of college? Are we potentially starting to see a move
away from the college era? To call it something. Uh, and what do you predict as the political
future? If there is this move away from college, let
me know. Including via voicemail, which is where we are going next.

95 Replies to “Is the Era of College Ending?

  1. Going to college to get a real education and a good career is like going to a bar as a male to get laid. You might be able to, but if you do, you’re one of the lucky ones.

  2. I’m really excited for college, because I can’t do anything I love relating to weather without that bachelors degree in Meteorology. I’m going this fall, but it sucks seeing that big price tag next to it. I don’t know, what do y’all think about college?

  3. I'm going back to college myself, it's okay if it's ending. People are learning things in military, trade schools, on the job, etc. People really need to just stop putting importance on college.

  4. Competence > Credentialing

    With the exception of a few select jobs and fields, the educational requirements to become competent in a given occupation can be obtained through self-study and/or apprenticeship.

  5. "Education isn't something you can finish."

    – Isaac Asimov
    “The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. ”
    – Alvin Toffler

  6. "… the concentration of wealth is natural and inevitable, and is periodically alleviated by violent or peaceable partial redistribution. In this view all economic history is the slow heartbeat
    of the social organism, a vast systole and diastole of concentrating wealth and compulsive recirculation."

    – Will & Ariel Durant, The Lessons of History

    "If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever increasing inequality."

    – Stephen Hawking
    'Lost Einsteins: The US may have missed out on millions of inventors
    ' –

  7. The elite colleges will just try to attract more wealthy students from other countries. They don't care if the students are from the mainland US or else. So you might see less and less US students go to US colleges. but more and more foreign students instead.

  8. I'm 25 and didn't go to college. I have no debt, make $23 HR and in a few months I'll be making $40+ with healthcare, pension, and 25 days off a year. It makes no sense to go to college unless your looking for an excuse to party for 4 years

  9. Colleges dose not really educate you, they just give out certificates. Very very expensive certificates. There’s better ways to educate yourself than college. The internet and books for instance.

    ARREST BUSH,CHENEY, RUMSFELD, RICE AND OBAMA FOR WAR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY FOR THE 9/11 False Flag and the cover up that followed, and for not pursuing a criminal investigation into 9/11.

  11. You don't necessarily need college
    It depends
    Open source study hall
    Destroy colleges
    Innovate without them
    Destroy Academia
    Artificial intelligence can replace them too!
    Use the same technologies to destroy them all
    From Amazon
    To government
    Wtfe is corrupt
    I don't give a fuck
    Capitalists want war
    Give them hell
    Hollywood can go fuck itself too!
    We shall become Gods together
    Fuck hypergamy also
    Design that greedy bitch out

  12. What I would very much like to see, is a comprehensive study done on all of the root causes which have driven up the cost of college so much over the years. And continues to do so.

  13. College has outpriced middle class people. Their only option is going into crippling debt. So yes, college will only be for the wealthy not far in the future and since the wealthy class isn't that large then colleges will close. College is like any other product; If the product is priced too high hardly anyone will buy it. College should much cheaper or free to some if we want to keep our populous college educated.

  14. I went to community college so the cost wasn't that bad. getting a masters or something would have been nice but that's just way too expensive 🙁

  15. I think at some point when colleges are too expensive, it will have to operate more like a trade schools to keep costs down for incoming students to attend. It will just be degrees in STEM and business related degrees like finance and accounting. Your typical 2-year general should be taken down to 1 year since you will throw out classes that won't help you in STEM and business majors anyways! If you want to major in things like African Studies, European History, or whatever, just offload those degrees or certificates to the community college system.

  16. @david . if you are not white you need college. there are fewer opportunities for "the old college try" where you can progress through corporate america without that stamp of legitimacy.

  17. I think its also possible in the future that people will some kind of movement to allow community colleges to offer degrees as a way to give the finger to the universities if prices continue to rise.

  18. People don't hate college, they just resent technocrat elites controlling everything. If college were free I'm sure most people would go because why not

  19. People underestimate technologies
    Artificial intelligence will out design everyone
    🤖❤👌👀 It's better to be on the winning team and it's not organic
    It's possible to upload education to the brain
    100% fact
    Like the matric movie
    This is a obsolete system
    I assure you
    I'm Going to become a God
    You better love me
    I'm not asking for worship
    Just appreciation
    My brain will give all the greedy fucks a challenge
    That you can be sure of
    A Cyberhyperian God 👍

  20. Trump's talking point work better on uneducated people, no, they work better on people who are older and live in the real world.

  21. For starters correlation does not equal causation. I would say it's more likely people in the left value higher education more.

    Plus getting an medical, history, english, or law degree does not make you "smarter" when it comes to voting. If anything economists are smarter when it comes to voting because they tend to vote right wing for more economic freedom.

  22. Definitely! Especially with the fact that 90% of the newest millionaires are millennials. Most dont have degrees. In this age of information there is literally no ceiling to how much u can make if u are willing to do the research and put in the work for your own stuff.

  23. I don’t agree things are ending, it’s just transitioning- the US is simply heading to a class based society determined by wealth, you know…. exactly like the founding of your constitution was supposed to avoid. You will have those, primarily with a background of inherited wealth, who will have access to excellent eduction, opportunities and healthcare- because they can afford them. The vast majority will form a poorly paid lower class to do all the things, cheaply, for the benefit of your upper class. Until around the late 19th century Europeans had such a system for centuries until. It worked very well ( for a tiny minority) but just keep making the same political and social choices you currently are and dont worry you’ll get used to it.

  24. The question shouldn't be whether America can afford to implement tuition free college. The question should be whether America can afford to get any dumber.

  25. Earning power has not kept up with inflation. Blame your republican parents and grandparent. They love you while also not caring about your future. SAD.

  26. Cut the cost in half by going to a junior college and then transferring to a public university without the old stigma? UC used to guarantee a certain percentage for junior year transfers from junior colleges. I don't know if they still do. Now they sell a sickening percentage of entries to foreign students because they can charge obscene prices. California families pay taxes for life for UC, while fewer and fewer Californian students can enter. It's infuriating. Nursing used to be a four-year degree. Now a local junior college is accepting LVNs into a one-year program and granting an RN, which pays well. Maybe that's a 2-yr program. Anyway, maybe we will see more of that sort of reliance on junior colleges.

  27. There were many, many years where college degrees weren't required to make a livable wage. The Boomers lived in that period. Though I disagree with the Boomers on most issues, I do think that needing college for ENTRY level jobs is stupid. I work in the healthcare industry in dietary, and the corporate empty suits who infect my department is painful. They have these college degrees but absolutely NO experience in how their stupidity ruins the job. They dart in, ruin everything with nonsense, and dart off. However, they have no experience in food service nor with the weird diets one must contend with in a nursing home. I am not saying never, ever go to college. What I am saying is that requiring a college degree for so many things is about the most idiotic thing in existence. If a person is going to dart into a thing they know nothing about, maybe don't apply for that job, and maybe those moron corps need to like, not hire those idiots. Experience should count for something, but it really doesn't, any more.

  28. It doesn't help that our education system is a joke. First we don't have a free public option; then having to pay for books and classes unrelated to the major doesn't save anyone money. Now with stagnant wages paired with the wealth inequality and steady rising in the cost of living…yeah, I'd say we'd almost be forced to go in a new direction unless a major change happens. We can't just not employ a notable chunk of Americans because they can't afford to be in piles of debt.

  29. Genius segment, David. It certainly needed to be said outright.
    I'm a college drop out who advocates not going to college to all who will listen. For no other reason other than what I paid gross amounts of money for in college can all be learned for free online. Mostly on YouTube if you know where to look and take the advice given in the videos. And the divide will be the same as the collegiate output. Those who are disciplined enough will push through and come out on top. Those who wince, at even small hurdles during the process of learning, will ultimately quit and take an unfulfilling job instead.

    You're not wrong and we don't need another decade to figure that out. We've been seeing it in real time for almost 20 years now.

  30. Many of the non-college jobs will be lost to automation in the future for example self-driving trucks. Even now non-college jobs require more than a high school diploma.

  31. Well, even if collage is phased out due to the system, that doesn't necessarily mean that we as a society still can't educate ourselves through other means, such as your sponsor Skillshare for instance, we would just need to push the idea of gaining knowledge on certain subjects as a requirement like we would for subjects like Math or Writing and English. Collage, as it is today, has become more or less an extension of what's wrong with American education where more focus is on meeting a quota than preparing us for life or a specific job we go there to achieve and a means to force us the students to have to pay out hundreds of thousands in debt.

  32. I am very grateful for my college education. I couldn't imagine living in a society where the sciences and humanities were not available for all to study. Higher education is not just about income; it's about life's values. Without values, corruption and social ills would run rampant and unchecked. In short, education counters ignorance.

  33. if you're able to get into a top 25, maybe top 50 college and it won't financially ruin you, you ought to go. you aren't there for the education so much as the network. who you know is the most important thing in terms of getting your foot in the door.

  34. A college education will become an app, like Facebook, and be completely free. The current model of education, in the ear of the internet, is a scam.

  35. It's a double-edged sword. If we actually came out of high school with a proper education, including finance and investing, we wouldn't have to worry about the voting public. And there are too many worthless degrees offered. The higher-ed system is really just a cash cow for the university and loan companies.

  36. As an Australian engineer who went to college in the states and with 30years of experience. The era of college is not ending, the era of worthless college degrees is or going to college for worthless reasons is.
    Both my parents were high school teachers and like America, Australia followed with an education policy based on University Degrees as being the ONLY way to prosperity. Australia took it so seriously that high school funding became linked to college acceptance numbers. The more students who got accepted into college degree courses was how funding was (and as far as I know still) decided.
    The result of this madness is that Australia is incredibly short staffed for skilled people with what America calls "vocational training". The only politician or person running for office in the Western world who has even the slightest grasp on this is Andrew Yang. Here he is with Joe Rogan and yes its title as being about UBI but look at what he goes on about with skills. Here he is again with a couple of undecided people they go into training the 30min mark
    I get what he's talking about because as an engineer I see the same issue in Australia.

    It started in the late 80s but really manifested itself in the in the mid-2000s when we were trying to build new mines to feed China and there was just a massive shortage of skilled tradesmen. I was on an iron ore mine at 1 point and was offered a $50,000 wage increase if I could weld. I know for a fact Australia is desperate for the mechanics who maintain the big mining trucks and diggers.

    Since 2000 we have installed close to a $Trillion in mines and gas plants and don't have the people we need to maintain it. And it staggers me that America has the same issue.

  37. End of college is uniquely Hitler move. Trump is on record as being anti community college pro vocational school. Divide and conquer. Haves have nots. Trump is following Hitler's hand book including the drug abuse

  38. Andrew Yang was correct. Plumbers and electricians have to go to school. They won't be replaced anytime soon. I would be happy if these schools and community college were free

  39. I couldn’t imagine paying for healthcare, I would already bankrupted manymany times. And I couldn’t imagine paying for education, I would be veryvery badly uneducated.

  40. Well I see it there are already obsolete when even stanford and harvard cared more about College football then actual acadamia. I think making them free would really help even right wing people they'll just avoid the liberal art colleges like the plague.

  41. This is exactly what Andrew Yang has been talkin about the only candidate that has brought the subject up compared us to Germany

  42. Not only will tuition rates likely continue to rise disproportionately to everything else; high school graduates are likely to receive less and less help from their parents because of THEIR debt. Just think of all the Gen Xers and Millennials who can't possibly save for our own kids' college because we'll be paying for ours longer than it takes to raise a kid. Mine just turned 14 and I don't have a penny set aside for her. I at least got most of my tuition paid by Pell grants but everybody knows tuition is only one of many costs of being a student, and so I'm also deep in debt. Anyway I'm not inclined to push my daughter to go, never say never but so far, no. It would depend on what she really wants to do for a living; right now it's 'Rock Star' and next week it will probably be 'Graphic novelist' or something. What I sure can't do is tell her how important college is for success, when both her dad and I have lousy jobs that are not in our degree fields. Yeah all the time I think about awesome stuff I learned and it definitely honed my critical thinking skills, but if I could do it all over again, I would not. Not for such crazy money.

  43. When I first enrolled in my school, tuition was about $3,000/semester for full time students. 7 years later, it's about $5,000/semester.

  44. As some one who went to a four year state school for social work it's such an issue right now. You need a degree to work in my field and you eventually must obtain a masters degree. I have around 20k in debt which is 225 a month for ten years. I need to get my masters to make a wage nearing 50k a year and I'm petrified of taking on more debt. With all this being said I had the Pell grant for four years, chose a cheap institution, worked during college and was an ra (free room and board for two years) and I still racked up that much. I know my situation ain't the worst but our generation has been so badly punished its crazy.

  45. I'm in California and I graduated with a two year degree from a community (junior) college (Marin) before getting my bachelor's degree from a four year university (UC Berkeley).

  46. In Finland, my children can go to university for free as I've already paid for it through my taxes. Even I can go back to university if I want to and I won't pay more than what I pay in taxes.

    Finns use their tax money to create and manage schools and other public institutions, they're always thinking of bettering their society for their children, not their rich oligarchy.

  47. What? Intentionally reducing education further? Intentionally reducing? Really? It that's not clear enough, let me give a formal advice from Europe: Just don't.

  48. It's tough. I paid way too much for a questionable college degree ( Art Institutes, repreSENT! ) but then I worry about more Americans having even less education. :/

  49. College is still important for having an educated populace. It is one of the reasons why the system doesn't want it to be universal.

  50. Republicans whine about colleges because young people tend to be liberal, which leaves conservatives outnumbered at many colleges. And you know how they feel about minorities…

  51. College, especially in its current condition doesn't really equate to intelligence, remember Trump is an Ivy league college graduate while Greta Thunberg at 17, and presumably pre college is extremely intelligent and educated on issues. Bill gates dropped out of college and did is very educated, etc, there are countless examples on both sides, very unintelligent/ignorant college grads and very politically active and intelligent people who either didn't attend or didn't finish college. Intellectual curiosity, passion for our enviorment and the politics that can shape it, even education itself are no loger, especially in todays day and age tied to college exclusively or specifically, look at your sponsor as an example, there are multiple ways to get an education that doesn't involve a college experience or net you a diploma. The lies today, largely due to the internet are more blurred than ever, in fact, one could argue not attending college in the traditional sense is actually the more educated move. I don't think in and of itself a move away from structured college educations is going to put us in a place like Idiocracy depicts, though there are days, the "predictions" it made are scary and depressing to watch unfold.

  52. I'm watching a generation be full of participation trophies…cry when every race diversity sex doesnt recieve an award…get rid of valedictorians bc ppl have hurt feelings they also aren't valedictorians…women are prom kings and men are prom queens and schools run to tell the media so they are famous..and the best…I'm watching school shootings…mass shooting across the globe….civilian aircraft being shot down..and no..none of this is the criminals fault..the bad guys's all Trumps end college end voting and someone please nuke us already..soon..the tic tock tide pod generation will be voting

  53. The cost of tuition at colleges and universities are always going up. With wages remaining stagnant there isn't a lot of hope to attend college anymore unless one is really well off or wealthy. I think most people in North America will stop attending college unless they are very rich and that we will see more students from other countries like China, Japan, Vietnam, India, etc.

  54. I don't think there's a meaningful relationship between political affiliation and education without the relational data to explain the trends (e.g. localized social norms and values, localized job markets like coal mining vs. software). Not a lot to be learned there otherwise.

    As far as the schools themselves, I think it's mostly a matter of "GIGO", or "garbage in, garbage out": The kinds of people who are successful after university are the same kind of people who would have been successful without it, while the worst kinds of people to work with are the "professional students" who know how to game the academic systems without understanding the goals of the institutions themselves. I've seen too many master's graduates who can't actually do the professional work required of them, yet who also feel they are owed more money for work they used to do (as opposed to the work they're being paid for). Which is to say there are lots of incompetent, lazy people out there with paperwork to grease their way to positions where they can do the most damage. And while education obviously improves the lives of people who were built to succeed with it, too many companies put too high of an emphasis on specific paths, giving leeway to universities to water down the educations they provide in pursuit of more money (i.e. they benefit from the so-called "education inflation" phenomenon).

    The military's nuclear engineering pipeline, for example, has one of the world's most challenging and rewarding academic programs out there, but many civilian companies overlook nuclear reactor operators because the Navy is not a degree-granting institution. You'd think splitting atoms would count for something, but not to useless bean counters who used to be professional students (my opinion: their loss, I refuse to work for stupid people, anyway).

    …And all the while, it is becoming easier to learn the skills you need from the internet. Teaching yourself computer programming is very commonplace nowadays, and the educational bubble continues to grow. Will it correct itself in the near future? I actually kind of doubt it. If the magic market of capitalism were capable of solving this problem, it would have done so decades ago, but the system only works when humans aren't bypassing all the rules and inserting their own biases (e.g. eliminating fair competition through backdoor deals for social reasons).

  55. Replace college with apprenticeships. If you survived high school, you have all the general education you need. There is literally no reason to keep taking English classes if you want to major in Chemistry. Or communication if you're doing math. That's just in academics where college would be most appropriate. If you plan to work outside of an academic field, college is an even greater waste of time.

    Are we making our country dumber for not requiring college? I think plenty of people are dumb without regard to their college education. And plenty more are smart in the same regard. People generally learn better with hands-on experience than they do in a lecture hall, passively listening to a professor for 5-6 hours a day. Even in academics, students have shown to learn significantly better and retain information in long-term memory following an exam. And exams themselves have become this make-or-break piece of document that determines if you pass or fail. Instead, tests need to be how you practice your studies, so they should be plentiful to ensure regular retention of important information. Again, these things would be easier to administer under the structure of apprenticeships, where less time is devoted to the lecture hall and more time is invested on the field actually doing what you dream of doing with your career. Most academic concepts do not click for students in the lecture hall. They click in the lab, or while solving problems on their own, or actually doing the damn thing they're willingly diving into a crater of debt to attend.

  56. Trump loves the “poorly educated” and the GOP want more support of the type seen at trumps rallies. As trump said, “republicans are so dumb, they’ll swallow anything”.!
    Keep them ignorant, secure their votes.

  57. Who are the sources that say false RP aligatations are rare collage gender studies. Even though The FBI Statistics show only 8% of Rape Claims have proven Tru. And that's not Counting those proven false years after Convictions. And you can tell Thanos when to College. Because his Beliefs in populions are still pushed in college yet Disproven tested bet on years Ago. College professor Paul Enrich bet Economist Juian Simmon in 1980 in 10 years matterials like copper Nickle Cobalt would increase in value as populion grows 1990populion grew and price those matterials actually went down . Collage is Disproven dogma

  58. Governments don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. That is against their interests.

    They want obedient workers who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept it.

    George Carlin.

  59. David Pakman would meticulously talk about each step of the apocalypse, which ones to take and how to take them (sort of not caring that all the evil animals these days do nothing else than deliberately take all possible steps), and continue to talk indifferently – though formally critically (I guess?) – while the apocalypse is happening.

  60. You make more money with college degree just so you pay more taxes to government and more interest to banks on student loans. Guess who’s losing

  61. Learn to program or IT networking, cyber security, etc. No college required. Just certifications, dedication and a whole lot of hard work.

  62. I went to an "elite" 🙄 university and it cost $80,000 back in the late 80's. Today my kid would have to pay almost $400k for a bachelors degree at the same school.

  63. ultimately the I think we should embrace automation and technology and move away from work. Humans should strive to do more of what we love and work less.

  64. College is important for developing relationships with people of different cultures as well..people who don't go to college seem not to move out of their home town or sometimes even their own front door

  65. When they introduced higher tuition fees in the UK (under a conservative-lib dem government, despite the lib dems running on scrapping tuition fees all together, historically important context As to why they got wiped out at the next election), there was concern that the number of people going to University would drop significantly as students access the value for money they would get from paying the extra money for a degree. There was a dip in the following year or two but it recovered as the importance of having a degree became clearer.

  66. College attendance will likely continue to decrease with increasing attendance cost. Major pushback will not occur until schools, manufacturers, pharmaceutical and oil companies run out of college educated individuals to fill positions. Then employers will have the choice of paying those individuals increased salaries or importing cheap labor.

  67. I served in the military and currently in college. My college is free and I get $2500 (location based: I'm in chicago) for rent per month. I love being in college.

  68. After the end of the college era comes the end of the high school era, preceded by a swelling of high school dropouts because the households need to have more money to make ends meet and the only way they see it happening is at the expense of the child’s education

  69. I've been wondering this for a LONG time. Thanks for discussing this topic. Having taught in a high school for three years, it seems like teens these days aren't "sold" by college as my generation was.

  70. I have completed about 150 units. Look, the real issue with college is that it is inefficient. It doesn't really give people a good way of transitioning what they studied unto to real world. Secondly, I got more out of resources online than with lectures (chegg and quizlet) so I really just don't believe in college just from this alone (but of course college isn't about learning, it's about going through bs and getting a piece of paper.. unless of course you are doing some really specific work like nursing, engineering, etc.). Thirdly, GE classes are a waste of time (basically half of a 4 yr degree). Yet another problem are employers asking for degrees even when the job clearly doesn't need it (in my opinion, this should be illegal). THIS is why so many people are even going to college in the first place. If employers weren't allowed to screen people out with college, only those that LEGITIMATELY want to work in a specific field would go (how it should be in the first place). Currently the barrier to entry is rising and people are graduating with excessive debt (7/10 college students graduate with 29k+ in debt). Also, it makes no sense how 4 yr degrees can't just be offered at CCs (to save a LOT of money. Well without GE classes, it should be closer to 2 years). College is currently a scam, but one which is forced unto people. It's either college, starting a business (most fail and it is difficult/impossible to build capital without a decent job), or low wages for life (unless you get incredibly lucky. Not realistic considering 32% of metropolis city jobs pay livable wages and 30% pay hardship wages. Also how 78% of fulltime workers live paycheck to paycheck).

    In my eyes, we need to move AWAY from college and move more towards apprenticeships/internships (I don't just mean like in the trades. I mean for basically all fields that possibly can offer them. This would be more efficient than schools). Maybe in SOME fields it would make sense to combine apprenticeships/internships with school, but only if necessary. Internships are not common enough (according to one stat I saw, about 40.4% of college grads seniors have 0 internships and half of all internships are unpaid). Also, 44% of 22-27 yr old college grads are underemployed (around 33% for all ages). 1/4 college grads also will make high school wages forever. In this sense, college is gambling. Really, this society got too caught up with the "prestige" of college. It is just not very good at preparing people for the actual real world. Nothing beats actual experience (something reading thousands of books won't give you).

  71. My story: I finished my bachelor's in the end of 2016, looked for jobs for about a year. Found out that at most places you need experience to get experience, "entry level" jobs required a bachelor's in addition to years of experience in the field. I finally got got a job but it fell through after just a couple weeks because of contract problems between the company I was working for and the company that I was being sub-contracted to. I decided that since programming jobs were full, and I didn't like programming as much as I thought I would that I would double down on education. I went back to a cyber security bootcamp, finished that just last month and now I'm at least getting offers for interviews on a weekly basis. Total debt ~$50,000, that's while working nearly full time during most of my schooling and getting FAFSA and other grants. To be fair the jobs I'm applying to and getting interviews for will allow me to pay off that debt quickly if I actually get one of the higher paying ones, but the same problem of needing experience to get experience is rearing its head.

    Do I regret college or the bootcamp? No, both were great for me personally. Do I think the debt/cost was worth it? So far no, ask me next month.

    I am in Colorado, probably in the top 5 for tech job openings in the country. We had lots of open programming/QA jobs when I was looking, but also a lot of people looking so the companies could ask for a lot while not paying a lot. Theoretically cyber security is even more understaffed and less people are looking for work in that field, for now. If you're wondering what degree to get or what bootcamp to go to I'd suggest cyber security, at least for now, it may fill up quick. Since there are less people available for that work the requirements are slightly lower and the pay slightly (sometimes a lot) higher. Fewer job postings require a college degree, but the higher paying ones do. There are fewer "entry level" jobs requiring years of experience, but they're still not uncommon. The bigger problem with cyber security over programming is that a lot of jobs require some kind of clearance, most often just a TS, but a lot want TS/SCI. If you're ex-military you're in luck because you probably already have TS. I am not ex-military so it'd be 6-24 months to get clearance on my own.

    Final thoughts: if you're in a programming degree right now DO INTERNSHIPS. I couldn't because I was working through my degree and I didn't think they were a big deal, but boy was I wrong.
    Cyber security is way more fun than programming ever was for me, but you have to know a lot more about a lot more. From psychology and social engineering, to programming in assembler/python/java/c/etc, to the 7 layer OSI model, to FIPS/FedRamp/GRC in general, to hardware, to network structures, public speaking, structural engineering and physical penetrations (no laughing :P). Of course you can and maybe should specialize in any of those, but you have to know at least some about all of them and more.

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